tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post115931801223145245..comments2023-12-30T01:46:52.888-05:00Comments on The Roar of Comics: The Myth of "Who's Your Daddy?"Stevenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14772087090448461047noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-81470758437556798702007-05-16T21:03:00.000-04:002007-05-16T21:03:00.000-04:00Wow, Chris, your comment is six months late, needl...Wow, Chris, your comment is six months late, needlessly antagonistic, irrelevant to the post you commented on, and, wonderfully, entirely wrong.<BR/><BR/>Had you read the post, as opposed to looking for minor quibbles with which to cast doubt upon my every argument, you would have seen that I at no point "esteem farmers as noble lower-class people". In fact, I don't talk about "farmers" in Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14772087090448461047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-75503445311555340142007-05-16T18:02:00.000-04:002007-05-16T18:02:00.000-04:00Yes, and every time you esteem farmers as noble lo...Yes, and every time you esteem farmers as noble lower-class people my background screams middle-class profanities.<BR/><BR/>For goodness sake, owning between 80 and hundreds of acres of land, multiple vehicles including farm equipment, and actually being able to live off of it, make profit from it, are all components of not upper-class and not middle-class but lower-class is an idea which makes Chris Arndthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01321490069571209332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159580415900320692006-09-29T21:40:00.000-04:002006-09-29T21:40:00.000-04:00I wouldn't say vigilante progressivism is dead, ju...I wouldn't say vigilante progressivism is dead, just out of fashion (though if Banksy has anything to do with it, it might be making a comeback.)<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://roar-of-comics.blogspot.com/2006/03/superheroes-and-politics.html" REL="nofollow">I agree that a little more activism could do the Last Son of Krypton some good</A>, but I can also see why writers would move away from it for Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14772087090448461047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159553526815792742006-09-29T14:12:00.000-04:002006-09-29T14:12:00.000-04:00Well, "soulless corporation" is a bit of hyperbole...Well, "soulless corporation" is a bit of hyperbole. But Superman is a higher profile character than V or Green Arrow, and so there's still the whole "we need to sell lunchboxes" angle.<BR/><BR/>As for that breed of progressivism being dead, well, it's sort of, but there's still the basic allure of a guy going out and fixing the things that need fixing. Though he does fight Luthor-the-capitalist Evan Watershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263250766060234515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159485266784206732006-09-28T19:14:00.000-04:002006-09-28T19:14:00.000-04:00Evan: First off, I will not condone that canard ab...Evan: First off, I will not condone that canard about "soulless corporations" suppressing radical propaganda and imagery. DC still produces <I>Green Arrow</I> and sells tons of copies of <I>V for Vendetta</I> every year. As long as they can sell it, they'll produce it. (cynical, but true)<BR/><BR/>Which kind of answers why he's not a "radical progressive" anymore: no one is buying that. Let's Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14772087090448461047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159385038643306852006-09-27T15:23:00.000-04:002006-09-27T15:23:00.000-04:00This is sort of incidental, but why has no writer ...This is sort of incidental, but why has no writer since (AFAIK) gone back to the whole radical progressive Superman image? I mean, I can see why DC wants that as the main image of the character, being part of a big soulless corporation themselves, but as far back as the Eighties they've allowed alternative interpretations of their icons. So why hasn't Alan Moore or Grant Morrison or Frank Miller Evan Watershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263250766060234515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159375331999851542006-09-27T12:42:00.000-04:002006-09-27T12:42:00.000-04:00Matthew: It'd be hard to map Rincewind to any hero...Matthew: It'd be hard to map Rincewind to any hero because he's such an intentional skewering of the heroic ideal. Given the choice between saving others and saving himself, Rincewind saves himself, every time. The only reason he keeps saving the world is because it'd be suicide not to. If anything he's Arthur from the Tick, or Ambush Bug.<BR/><BR/>The Spider-Man of Discworld (and there's a Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14772087090448461047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159344625053504442006-09-27T04:10:00.000-04:002006-09-27T04:10:00.000-04:00Don't go onto other people's blogs and dismiss wha...<I>Don't go onto other people's blogs and dismiss what they wrote as moot. Disagree, agree, correct, clarify. Don't dismiss. It's insulting.</I> <BR/><BR/>Heh, well I did say "almost."<BR/><BR/>Okay, I'll try to moot this around a bit. To take one of your points, the early Siegel & Shuster Superman as (godlike) friend of the working class miner: I think that rather than being proof of some sortBKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14262262627667900995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159327946136761962006-09-26T23:32:00.000-04:002006-09-26T23:32:00.000-04:00Well, nobody's as cunning or ruthless as Vetinari....Well, <I>nobody</I>'s as cunning or ruthless as Vetinari. Let's not get silly here.<BR/><BR/>You may be right that that's the book Pratchett is building towards... but I think the <I>ending</I> of that book is that <I>Vimes</I> becomes the new Patrician, completely against his own wishes. I think Vetinari has those wheels in motion right now and I think the idea would have Carrot's 100% support.<Matthew Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01007497367844755093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159327360678272792006-09-26T23:22:00.000-04:002006-09-26T23:22:00.000-04:00Matthew: man, if this were a Discworld blog, we co...Matthew: man, if this were a Discworld blog, we could be here all day. The short of it is, Carrot is super smart and potentially super ruthless, BUT <I>compared to Vetinari</I>, Carrot isn't smart or ruthless enough to run Ankh-Moorpark. Not yet.<BR/><BR/>The book Pratchet is building to, whether he knows it or not, is what happens when Vetinari dies, and they have to find someone new to replace Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14772087090448461047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159324527212694172006-09-26T22:35:00.000-04:002006-09-26T22:35:00.000-04:00Sure, Superman/Clark chooses to live partly the li...Sure, Superman/Clark chooses to live partly the life of a newspaper reporter, working in an office and renting an apartment, but he is so much more than this that discussions of his class-trappings as Clark Kent are almost moot. Ditto aspects of his class origins. <BR/><BR/>What is more interesting is the narrative use to which the character is put. What kind of message do Superman comics BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14262262627667900995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24364674.post-1159323902973990922006-09-26T22:25:00.000-04:002006-09-26T22:25:00.000-04:00What a great post. Again I have to say that we rea...What a great post. Again I have to say that we really don't disagree much, if at all.<BR/><BR/>You say:<BR/><BR/><I>I meant to respond right away, but I couldn't tell whether our disagreement over the class of Superman was a minor semantic disagreement over the definition of the word "is" (which would be too minor to even argue) or a major philosophical one over the meaning of social class and Matthew Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01007497367844755093noreply@blogger.com